Discover the truth behind “The Tithing Hoax” as Susan Puzio of Prophetic News Network sits down for an insightful conversation with R. Renee. This revealing interview unveils the deceptive nature of the tithing doctrine and its far-reaching effects on the Christian community.
Table of Contents
Listen to the Interview
NOTE: Below is a transcript of the interview. Minor edits have been made to improve clarity.
SUSAN PUZIO, HOST:
Hello everyone and God bless you today.
This is the day the Lord has made; we will rejoice and be glad.
We want to welcome you today to Prophetic News, the radio broadcast on Blog Talk Radio.
And we come to you every Saturday live over the internet at 1 p.m. Eastern Standard Time.
And you can also visit our website propheticnews.com.
There are some great articles for you, and we also have a YouTube channel.
You can see some wonderful videos.
They’re very educational. They’re biblical.
And why we do these programs is we want to lead you to the Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior, the Redeemer.
And last night, I was so blessed. I was watching the Brooklyn Tabernacle choir at Angola prison.
And wow, if you want to see something uplifting, it certainly brings back the memories of when we first fell in love with Jesus, our first love.
We want to let you know that there is a Savior who loves you, someone who died for you.
And these men were giving their testimony, some of these lifers there.
The warden is a born-again Christian. And they have church. They have a big church there.
They go the steeple. He wants that to be the main focus of that prison.
But we were all in prison at one time before we knew the Lord Jesus Christ.
And he set us free. And those of us that have been redeemed, we know what we have been redeemed from.
We know and have experienced the goodness of God in all areas of our lives.
And we have experienced the blessings of God, the free gift of eternal life.
And we are going to talk today about tithing.
I have a special guest, our sister Renee, the author of The Tithing Hoax.
And I will be bringing her on in just a few moments here.
But I want you to know that we believe in giving.
We believe that we have the greatest giver as an example.
The Father God, who gave his only begotten son, was the greatest giver.
And he gave out of love. And that should be our only motivation for giving.
It is because we love people. We want to help people.
And that is true Christianity. Not banging people over the head about giving 10% or, you know, God gets mad at you.
No, no, no, no, you know.
We are people that are to walk in love.
So let love always be our motivation for everything we do.
And I’m going to bring my guest on now.
My guest, our sister Renee, God bless you, Renee. How are you?
R. RENEE: Hi Susan. How are you doing? I’m doing well.
SUSAN PUZIO, HOST:
Yes, amen. I’m looking forward to this interview.
And I just hope we get a good sound this time.
It was a little hard to hear you last time. You have a nice, quiet, gentle spirit.
So, just try to sneak up.
R. RENEE: Yeah, I will.
SUSAN PUZIO, HOST:
We can get a good sound because I think what you have to say is very important.
I wanted to ask you something because I had someone in the chat room, which is open.
So, if you have any questions, please go to the chat room.
There’s also a live call-in number. If you have any questions, I will give them to you if you would like to call in and ask either of us a question.
It’s 914-338-1638. So you can call in or put your questions in the chat room.
But I did get a question last week about first fruits.
And this person was asking me why, you know, he said that there was tithing in the New Testament.
And he pointed out the scripture Proverbs 3.
Let me read this to you and get your take on it.
In verse 9 of Proverbs 3, he says, Honor the Lord with thy substance and with the first fruits of all thine increase.
How do you see that as it relates to tithing money?
R. RENEE: Well, let’s see. I don’t want to get too deep on that.
But first of all, when we talk about Proverbs, let’s start here.
When we approach the scriptures and when it comes to dealing with scriptures in context,
it always helps to know who the scripture is addressing and to whom that scripture applies.
SUSAN PUZIO, HOST:
Right.
R. RENEE: And when we’re talking about whenever you see a reference to first fruits, once again, it goes back to ancient Israel.
And it goes back to agricultural produce.
So, even when talking about first fruits is similar to tithing in that you’re talking about produce from the land.
The author of Proverbs is speaking to ancient Israel because they were commanded to offer up first fruits.
And they were commanded to tithe.
Now, I will say I do believe there is a principle, a spiritual principle, behind both tithing and first fruits.
And from my understanding, Jesus relates that principle very well when he speaks of seeking the kingdom of God first.
And the emphasis is placing God first in our lives.
SUSAN PUZIO, HOST:
Yes.
How do you explain the first fruits?
Because we hear so much about first fruits.
We see these preachers on television talking about all the first fruits offering the first of the year.
And you have to give God a certain amount.
You have to appease him, especially at certain times of the year.
So, how do you explain first fruits?
R. RENEE: Well, they’re doing the same thing with the concept of first fruits.
They’re doing the same thing with that as they are with the whole tithing.
Once again, it’s all about placing the scriptures back into context.
When you talk about first fruits and the tithing, we’re talking about something that fell under or fell within the Mosaic Law.
Or the law of Moses.
And it was commanded that ancient Israel perform or give these tithes 10% of their agricultural produce.
The first fruits are the first of whatever was grown from the land; that was part of their worship and how they conducted their religious ceremony.
So once again, they’re still taking something that was never part of Christianity or the origins of New Testament Christianity, if you will.
You will not see any New Testament Christians practicing tithing or giving first fruits.
So whenever they talk about that, they still go back to the Old Testament, and they are mixing, if you will, Law with Grace.
They mix Old Testament and Mosaic Law commandments and mix it with New Testament Grace.
The New Testament is all about giving under Grace, and giving is voluntary.
But they didn’t give first fruit offerings. They didn’t give 10% of their wages.
SUSAN PUZIO, HOST:
Right.
So it’s so interesting because we see so much talk about tithing and seed sowing.
You rarely hear anybody talk about giving any more. It’s always sowing seed and sowing seed unto God.
And then when you give God this amount of money, he jumps off his throne, and he’s so impressed that they make you believe that he’s just so impressed with it.
Then he sees what you’re doing. This is part of this brainwashing deception; they’ve done a very good job with it.
Most Christians believe that they have to pay God off to get him to do things, and then they believe that selfishness is godliness, that you only give and you only sow seeds to get things back.
The devil has done his job.
R. RENEE: Right, and you talk about that selfishness.
What they’re doing is they’re appealing to people’s carnal desires.
They’re not appealing to the spirit of people. They’re not appealing to the hearts of people.
As I said, they appeal to the lowest common denominator, those carnal desires.
They’re appealing to people’s selfishness, and they’re appealing to greed.
If you want to talk about sowing seed, they’re sowing a seed of greed into the body of Christ.
They’re sowing seeds of materialism in the body of Christ.
As you say, they’re sowing that seed of selfishness.
Another point I wanted to make is God doesn’t want your money.
God wants your heart.
That’s the bottom line.
God wants your heart.
When you talk about giving, the powerful spiritual principle of giving, which is promoted in the New Testament scriptures for New Testament Christians, is with giving. You give out of love, not out of greed, not out of selfishness.
It takes you out of your flesh.
SUSAN PUZIO, HOST:
Yes.
R. RENEE: They don’t teach giving because giving is voluntary.
And giving is about a free-will offering.
I find it very ironic, especially among Word of Faith preachers. They’re all about faith.
But what I’m picking up on is they don’t trust or have faith in God. They don’t have faith enough in God’s people to teach giving and allow people to give according to their heart and be Spirit-led.
They don’t trust that because they don’t have faith that the people want to give and support their ministry or church.
So, instead, they want to bring people under the Old Covenant and pull up these tithing scriptures that don’t apply to Christians.
And they want to beat them over the head with it. They want to manipulate their emotions by instilling fear in the hearts and minds of God’s people that you better tithe or else.
Or you want to appeal to their carnality or promote materialism.
So I’m so annoyed with this.
So where is the faith? What’s the faith in that?
SUSAN PUZIO, HOST:
Well, that’s the same thing I saw because I was involved in the Word of Faith movement for many years.
And I have to say I was ignorant, and the Bible talks about not being ignorant.
I would not have you ignorant brethren. So, we have to study the scriptures for ourselves.
And I remember meeting a pastor and his wife, and they talked about free will giving and didn’t believe in tithing.
And I thought, oh, wow, those poor people.
Because I was a firm believer in tithing until I went and I did my homework, and I found out what the Bible said.
And then I realized that these so-called faith people write all these books, and they have all these tape series and all these seminars and everything.
And they’re going to teach you how to get money.
They’re going to teach you how to make the right confession and then how to give a certain amount of money.
So then God’s obligated to bless you.
I mean, God’s not obligated to you.
Just because you give him a certain amount of money.
I think a scripture in Romans talks about how God doesn’t have to pay you back.
So I realized it wasn’t faith.
It had nothing to do with faith that they have big churches full of 10,000 and 20,000 people, and they have a good lifestyle, an airplane, a Rolls Royce or whatever, and a mansion.
And they’re going to teach you.
Now, look so that you can be just like me.
But the fact is they didn’t get that money through faith.
I would like to see how most of them would make out if they stopped teaching, “Give me your 10%.”
If I had 10,000 people giving me 10% of their income, I’d be doing pretty good, too.
I found out that as I was involved in the faith movement, I would take surveys then, and a few times, I did this in some churches where I preached and asked people to raise their hands and tell me how many people were there.
And tell me how many people in the congregation were out of debt from all the tithing and all the seed sowing, and hardly anybody could raise their hand because everybody had debts.
And then I also looked at the life of two of the biggest seed faith proponents, Oral Roberts and Richard Roberts.
Oral Roberts’ hospital went bankrupt that he spent $80 million building.
Then, he lost his university.
So, seed faith didn’t work for them.
They were like 40 or 50 million dollars in debt.
So, if seed faith worked, why didn’t it work for them?
So, my eyes were opened, and I found too that when I had, it took so long for me to get that mindset out of my head where I better give so that my need could be met.
It took a long time to readjust myself because it’s very strong.
R. RENEE: I mean, it is like you mentioned. It’s like a form of brainwashing. People have been indoctrinated with this tithing doctrine, this particular belief system.
And, I wasn’t trying to beat up on the Word of Faith folk because it’s not limited to Word of Faith preachers.
So, I want to put that out there.
So, I’m not picking on them.
I was just citing that particular segment as an example of these types of teachings.
But where was I?
But, yeah, like I said, it’s like a form of brainwashing, and they teach this tithing doctrine to make it appear as if it’s an integral part of the Christian faith.
Like it’s a part of your Christian identity, a part of who you are as a Christian.
And if you’re not tithing, what kind of Christian are you really?
You’re not a real Christian.
SUSAN PUZIO, HOST:
Yeah.
R. RENEE: So, I’m like, wow.
And that’s a very powerful thing.
And if people are having this drummed into them, Sunday after Sunday or month after month,
it’s part of what makes you a Christian.
And not only doesn’t make it Christian, it’s part of what makes you a good Christian.
If you’re a good Christian, hey, you’re going to tithe.
You’re going to give, you’re going to give 10% of your gross income.
So, you know, I’m like, come on.
That is not even scriptural.
SUSAN PUZIO, HOST:
People have that belief.
It’s very, very strong.
It’s like I say to them, what is wrong with listening to the Holy Spirit?
A lot of people say, well, you don’t believe in giving?
Well, that’s not what I’m saying.
Yes.
I believe in giving.
I can hear from God for myself.
I don’t need the pastor to tell me who to give to.
I don’t need anyone else to tell me who to give to because I can hear the Holy Spirit for myself.
What if the Holy Spirit wants me to give 10% to somebody else besides the pastor?
Well, most people can’t even go there because they’re so brainwashed into thinking, well, I’ve got to bring this 10% to the church house over here to my pastor.
Otherwise, God’s going to curse me.
And meanwhile, you’re sitting in a congregation full of people.
I saw this happen in one church I was at.
There was a family there.
The mother left the father with three children.
And the father worked at the church there.
Meanwhile, the pastor would bring in people like Mike Murdock, and then one Sunday morning, they gave him a $10,000 offering.
And the pastor was very proud of that.
Meanwhile, this man with these three children couldn’t even afford a telephone.
He didn’t even have a telephone because he couldn’t afford it.
I’m saying there’s something wrong with this.
There’s something wrong with the fact that we are in a church, and they’re preaching, tithing and seed sowing.
And they’re bringing in these pimps like Mike Murdock and these people, this Mark Gorman and these people there, bringing them in to take up big offerings.
Meanwhile, the people in the church don’t have food and clothing and can’t afford a telephone for their family.
And I said, no, there’s something wrong with this.
They are very good at what they do regarding this whole tithing and seed faith.
They’re very good to the detriment of the churchgoers, but they’re very good at what they do.
And they know how to work a crowd.
It worked on me a couple of times.
R. RENEE: Yeah. And often, they get caught up in an emotional frenzy and give out of their emotions.
Yeah. You know, which is not the same as spirit, but they get caught up in the hype.
Many of these guys are like hype men, and people get caught up in the hype.
A lot of people out here are in desperate situations.
SUSAN PUZIO, HOST:
That’s right. And naturally, they are desperate. And when people are desperate, they’re more susceptible to being exploited.
R. RENEE: Yes. They get taken advantage of. Well, that is inexcusable.
How can you call yourself a man or woman of God? That’s what I call religious malpractice.
SUSAN PUZIO, HOST:
Yes. Amen to that. That’s what it is. Amen.
I hate for the government to get involved in church business, but I see a day when people will start filing lawsuits for fraud.
Because it is fraud. The Bible talks about fraud. It talks about doing things deceitfully. Don’t defraud your brother.
And this is exactly what these so-called men of God do. They call themselves men of God, but they don’t know God because you can’t know God and then do these kinds of things to people.
I say boycott these so-called ministries. Boycott the TV stations. If you go to a meeting, they stand up, telling you to give God $1,000, and your family gets saved.
They pick on vulnerable areas of your life, salvation for your family, paying off your debt, and healing your body. It’s despicable. Have a shout-out and just tell them you lie.
R. RENEE: Mm-hmm.
SUSAN PUZIO, HOST:
And that’s what somebody did over at Eddie Long’s church when he got up that Sunday, they had, they stood up and said, you lie, and they escorted them out of the church.
But, you know, enough is enough already. If people started going to these live telethons when they’re live over the air and just stand up and say, you lie, and that’s not scriptural.
I wouldn’t be a welcome guest if I’m sure you wouldn’t be on TBN or any of these networks.
They’re not going to give you a platform here. But God makes the way because you have YouTube. It’s a wonderful vehicle to reach people. You can reach the whole world through your computer without spending a million dollars to have a television program.
Or you have this vehicle like we have here with Blog Talk Radio, which is a great blessing. So God makes the way. And, of course, everybody has a Bible. So you are responsible for reading your Bible.
And anyway, we just have about a minute left.
But yeah, time flies when you’re having fun. I mean, this is such an important subject. And I want to bring you back on again in the future in a few weeks because, to me, this is very important.
And I want to see a change. I want to see a revolution, a reformation, and let’s get back to love. Love is much better. Love giving is much better. And it lets show people that we are Christians, not the stuff that’s going on, which is an embarrassment.
What we see going on is an embarrassment to the body of Christ. But please direct people to your website and your YouTube channel.
R. RENEE: Oh, yes. If you want to learn more about tithing, just go to TheTithingHoax.com. And I also have videos dealing with the topic of tithing on YouTube. It’s YouTube.com.
SUSAN PUZIO, HOST:
And I’m going to go to TheTithingHoax.com.
And you will be greatly blessed because let’s be examples. Let’s be like the Lord Jesus Christ, the greatest giver. He laid down his life for us. We are not under the Law. We have the Holy Spirit of God living in us, dwelling in us.
And he shows us the right way, the right way to do things. And more and more people like my sister, myself, and others have realized that giving is an act of love. And we’re under Grace. Hallelujah.
I love grace. I love grace. But I want to thank you, my dear sister, for being on and for spending time and doing all this research because she did the research. And you can learn from people.
That’s why we have teachers that we can learn things that they’ve learned, and we can check it out with the Word of God. We check everything out with God’s Word. So I want to thank you. And I’ll be in touch with you soon. And we’ll do a few more programs. Thank you for being on.
R. RENEE: Well, thank you very much, Susan.
God bless you.
SUSAN PUZIO, HOST:
Thank you.
God bless you real good.
Amen. I want to thank you all for tuning in today. And I want to tell you that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through the Lord Jesus Christ.
I want you to give your life to Jesus today. I know that 30 years ago, I was a lost person. I was lost without God, without His grace, without His mercy. But He took me and made something beautiful out of my life.
He took my sins, and He forgot about them. He forgave me. And He can forgive you, too, no matter what you’ve done today. There is forgiveness. There is mercy.
There is a God. He’s real. You weren’t created in the image of an ape. No, you were created in the image of an almighty God.
So, ask Jesus Christ to come into your life today. Ask Him to reveal Himself to you, to prove that He’s real. He did it for me. I’m telling you. It’s a miracle. It’s something else to be born again. It is amazing.
You will be a new person. And get a Bible. Read your Bible. And get to know. It’s a beautiful book. It’s such a wonderful book. It’s living.
When I didn’t know God and I’d opened the Bible, I didn’t understand it. But when I was born again, that book became life to me. It was so real. So much wisdom and so much truth.
The truth will set you free. Hallelujah. God bless you today, and tune in again next week. Okay. Prophetic News on Blog Talk Radio. God bless.
Frequently Asked Questions
Who is the father of the Word of Faith movement?
The Word of Faith movement, often associated with the Prosperity Gospel, can trace its modern roots to figures like Kenneth E. Hagin. Hagin is frequently called the “father” of the Word of Faith movement due to his influential teachings and writings on faith, healing, and prosperity. His teachings have significantly impacted many contemporary charismatic preachers and televangelists.
Who are the top 10 Word of Faith preachers?
The Word of Faith movement has seen numerous influential preachers over the years. Some of the top Word of Faith preachers, known for their wide-reaching influence, include Kenneth E. Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyer, Frederick K.C. Price, Paul and Jan Crouch, Marilyn Hickey, and Jesse Duplantis. These figures have garnered significant attention and following due to their teachings, television broadcasts, and publications.
Is the Word of Faith biblical?
The question of whether the Word of Faith movement is biblical is a matter of debate among Christians. Proponents argue that it is rooted in Scripture, emphasizing verses about faith, healing, and prosperity. However, critics contend that the movement takes certain verses out of context and promotes teachings that diverge from traditional Christian doctrine.
What is the meaning of the first fruits of thine increase?
The “first fruits of thine increase” refers to the practice in ancient Israel of giving the first and best portion of one’s harvest to God as an offering, symbolizing the dedication of the entire harvest to Him. It was a way of acknowledging God’s provision and expressing gratitude and trust in His continued blessings.
Proverbs 3:9 (KJV) instructs, “Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase.” This emphasizes the importance of dedicating the initial produce to God as an act of worship and thanksgiving.
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